Closed: Character input speed drop in IPTC info window

[Hayo Baan]

I started to notice a strange phenomena with the IPTC info window.  Inputting text/moving your cursor around in the text fields is really really slow when opened from the contact sheet.  When opened from the preview window, speed is back to normal, so it's not the window itself that is slow, but probably some interaction with the underlying contact sheet is making it slow.

Note: I've never noticed this before when I was still running Windows (thankfully we've moved to the Mac about a month ago), so it could be a Mac-thing only.

Hope you can shed some light on this one/fix it.

Running Mac OSX 10.5.4, PM 4.5.3.2b0721 (it happened on 4.5.3.1, too though).

[Kirk Baker]

Hayo,

I started to notice a strange phenomena with the IPTC info window.  Inputting text/moving your cursor around in the text fields is really really slow when opened from the contact sheet.  When opened from the preview window, speed is back to normal, so it's not the window itself that is slow, but probably some interaction with the underlying contact sheet is making it slow.

Note: I've never noticed this before when I was still running Windows (thankfully we've moved to the Mac about a month ago), so it could be a Mac-thing only.

Hope you can shed some light on this one/fix it.

Running Mac OSX 10.5.4, PM 4.5.3.2b0721 (it happened on 4.5.3.1, too though).

I'd really need much more information from you.  How many files in the contact sheet?  RAW?  JPEG?  Do you have PM render RAW files?

-Kirk

[Hayo Baan]

Hi Kirk,

I've tried with any number of images (between 10 and 200), this has no influence on the phenomena.  I usually (only) have RAW (NEF) files in the contact sheet, but I also tested a folder with only (smallish) JPG images, and the effect is exactly the same: very slow character input (most noticeable when holding the key to repeat, but it also affects individual key presses; these too are much slower).  Oh, and I do not have PM render my images.

Hope this is enough for you to reproduce it.

Thanks,
    Hayo

[Kirk Baker]

Hayo,

I've tried with any number of images (between 10 and 200), this has no influence on the phenomena.  I usually (only) have RAW (NEF) files in the contact sheet, but I also tested a folder with only (smallish) JPG images, and the effect is exactly the same: very slow character input (most noticeable when holding the key to repeat, but it also affects individual key presses; these too are much slower).  Oh, and I do not have PM render my images.

Do you use Code Replacement?  Do any of the fields you're experiencing the slowness in have code replacement lookups in them?  Something like \{lens}\ in them?

The contact sheet would continue to load in the background even when you're in the Preview window, so I can't imagine how there would be any speed difference in using the IPTC Info dialog from the Contact Sheet vs. the Preview window.

What about the IPTC Stationery Pad?  Is it slow too?

-Kirk

[Hayo Baan]

Kirk,

No, I don't currently use any code replacements.  The contact sheet is already fully loaded, so that can't be it.
I just tried with the IPTC stationary pad: same behaviour (slow with contact sheet, quick with preview).

There must be some interaction between the dialogues and the contact sheet that makes this slow.

On windows I remember that if I placed the cursor at the wrong place, the info tooltip would flicker (I do think this caused slowing down as well, but can't remember 100%).  To rule this out, not only did I try to place the cursor outside of the (underlying) contact sheet, I also tried to disable the info tooltip altogether.  None of this had any influence...

Can you not reproduce this yourself?

(I do use spaces with 2x2 spaces, but I don't think that has anything to do with it.  I have tried killing all other windows, but that too does not influence the behaviour)

Funny things: I tried to see if the processor got used so had the Activity monitor running.  I could see no usage spikes, so that's not it.  However, when switching a few times between PM with the IPTC window and the activity monitor, sometimes the cursor would move quickly again, and other times not.  Even stranger while writing this I have been switching back and forth a lot and sometimes the response is as it should be, and sometimes not. Go figure...

Oh, one more thing, could it be that the keyboard settings (repeat rate and delay) somehow get jammed?  The slowness really looks like a "slow" setting in the keyboard preferences.  Probably not though as there would be nothing to do so.

Thanks,
    Hayo

[Kirk Baker]

Hayo,

No, I don't currently use any code replacements.  The contact sheet is already fully loaded, so that can't be it.
I just tried with the IPTC stationary pad: same behaviour (slow with contact sheet, quick with preview).

There must be some interaction between the dialogues and the contact sheet that makes this slow.

On windows I remember that if I placed the cursor at the wrong place, the info tooltip would flicker (I do think this caused slowing down as well, but can't remember 100%).  To rule this out, not only did I try to place the cursor outside of the (underlying) contact sheet, I also tried to disable the info tooltip altogether.  None of this had any influence...

Can you not reproduce this yourself?

(I do use spaces with 2x2 spaces, but I don't think that has anything to do with it.  I have tried killing all other windows, but that too does not influence the behaviour)

Funny things: I tried to see if the processor got used so had the Activity monitor running.  I could see no usage spikes, so that's not it.  However, when switching a few times between PM with the IPTC window and the activity monitor, sometimes the cursor would move quickly again, and other times not.  Even stranger while writing this I have been switching back and forth a lot and sometimes the response is as it should be, and sometimes not. Go figure...

Oh, one more thing, could it be that the keyboard settings (repeat rate and delay) somehow get jammed?  The slowness really looks like a "slow" setting in the keyboard preferences.  Probably not though as there would be nothing to do so.

I see, you're on Leopard.  Well there very well could be some more bugs in Leopard that are causing this.

The IPTC Info and IPTC Stationery Pad dialogs execute the same code whether they are opened from the Contact Sheet or the Preview window.  Neither one of the dialogs 'talks' to either the Contact Sheet or the Preview window while you're entering text.  In fact, the Preview window would likely cause more image cache access than the Contact Sheet since it requests larger images.  So I don't think the image loading is having any effect.

-Kirk

[Hayo Baan]

I see, you're on Leopard.  Well there very well could be some more bugs in Leopard that are causing this.

Indeed, the latest version (10.5.4) in fact.

Hmm, I guess this means I will have to wait for Apple to fix things then?  Is there a way we could find out what's causing this?

The IPTC Info and IPTC Stationery Pad dialogs execute the same code whether they are opened from the Contact Sheet or the Preview window.  Neither one of the dialogs 'talks' to either the Contact Sheet or the Preview window while you're entering text.  In fact, the Preview window would likely cause more image cache access than the Contact Sheet since it requests larger images.  So I don't think the image loading is having any effect.

That's what I figured too: no likely communication between the two, but there was no other reason I could think of...

Cheers,
    Hayo

[Kirk Baker]

Hayo,

I see, you're on Leopard.  Well there very well could be some more bugs in Leopard that are causing this.

Indeed, the latest version (10.5.4) in fact.

Hmm, I guess this means I will have to wait for Apple to fix things then?  Is there a way we could find out what's causing this?

I'm not sure how we would find out what is going on.  Basically the only thing PM currently does when you type things is check for code replacements, and if you don't even have any code replacement delimiter characters in the text field you're working with then that check is extremely fast.  Even when there are delimiter characters in the text field, doing the lookup is also very very fast.  Otherwise PM should be quite idle, waiting for input.

I have seen issues like this before with certain Input Managers being installed, things like TextExpander which monitor keystrokes and perform macros/text expansion.  Text input would slow down, and switching between apps would also be slow.  Do you have anything installed that might be in this category?

-Kirk

[Hayo Baan]

I see, you're on Leopard.  Well there very well could be some more bugs in Leopard that are causing this.

Indeed, the latest version (10.5.4) in fact.

Hmm, I guess this means I will have to wait for Apple to fix things then?  Is there a way we could find out what's causing this?

I'm not sure how we would find out what is going on.  Basically the only thing PM currently does when you type things is check for code replacements, and if you don't even have any code replacement delimiter characters in the text field you're working with then that check is extremely fast.  Even when there are delimiter characters in the text field, doing the lookup is also very very fast.  Otherwise PM should be quite idle, waiting for input.

I have seen issues like this before with certain Input Managers being installed, things like TextExpander which monitor keystrokes and perform macros/text expansion.  Text input would slow down, and switching between apps would also be slow.  Do you have anything installed that might be in this category?

No, nothing like that (at least not to my knowledge).  I'm still virtually running my MAC as I got is.  Just installed some software (eg. Aquamacs Emacs, Thunderbird, Firefox, Stuffit, Acrobat Reader, Open Office, Tinkertool, Temperature Monitor) and have made only a very limited number of system modifications with TinkerTool (e.g., showing transparant icons for hidden applications and highlighting the selection when in stacks).  I can't imagine any of this influencing what we see here.

Right, as a side note, I logged in with my wife's account (which is almost still completely default) and to my surprise I could not reproduce the slowness.  Of course her PM settings were completely different from mine, but even after syncing those, I still could not reproduce it.  I then thought, hey.  I have spaces enabled and she doesn't, lets see if that works...  Nope, doesn't seem to influence it either.

Weirdest thing is, now I can't even reproduce it anymore... 

Oh well, I'll get back to you when I can reproduce again.

Oh, one completely unrelated thing I noticed is that when I started PM for the first time using my wife's account, it told me it had to register again.  I did not expect this as the program was already registered (of course).  I guess this has to do with the fact you save the registration info in the user's preferences (or wherever), not in the system preferences (or whatever).  Not a bug, but just something unexpected.

Cheers,
    Hayo

[Kirk Baker]

Hayo,

I see, you're on Leopard.  Well there very well could be some more bugs in Leopard that are causing this.

Indeed, the latest version (10.5.4) in fact.

Hmm, I guess this means I will have to wait for Apple to fix things then?  Is there a way we could find out what's causing this?

I'm not sure how we would find out what is going on.  Basically the only thing PM currently does when you type things is check for code replacements, and if you don't even have any code replacement delimiter characters in the text field you're working with then that check is extremely fast.  Even when there are delimiter characters in the text field, doing the lookup is also very very fast.  Otherwise PM should be quite idle, waiting for input.

I have seen issues like this before with certain Input Managers being installed, things like TextExpander which monitor keystrokes and perform macros/text expansion.  Text input would slow down, and switching between apps would also be slow.  Do you have anything installed that might be in this category?

No, nothing like that (at least not to my knowledge).  I'm still virtually running my MAC as I got is.  Just installed some software (eg. Aquamacs Emacs, Thunderbird, Firefox, Stuffit, Acrobat Reader, Open Office, Tinkertool, Temperature Monitor) and have made only a very limited number of system modifications with TinkerTool (e.g., showing transparant icons for hidden applications and highlighting the selection when in stacks).  I can't imagine any of this influencing what we see here.

Right, as a side note, I logged in with my wife's account (which is almost still completely default) and to my surprise I could not reproduce the slowness.  Of course her PM settings were completely different from mine, but even after syncing those, I still could not reproduce it.  I then thought, hey.  I have spaces enabled and she doesn't, lets see if that works...  Nope, doesn't seem to influence it either.

Weirdest thing is, now I can't even reproduce it anymore... 

Oh well, I'll get back to you when I can reproduce again.

Oh, one completely unrelated thing I noticed is that when I started PM for the first time using my wife's account, it told me it had to register again.  I did not expect this as the program was already registered (of course).  I guess this has to do with the fact you save the registration info in the user's preferences (or wherever), not in the system preferences (or whatever).  Not a bug, but just something unexpected.

We made that change because it has been a support issue for folks that don't have an Admin account, so PM cannot write out the registration data in a location that works for all users.  So people call us on the phone for help.  The way we're doing it now it should always work since PM will always be able to write to their user's Preferences folder.

-Kirk

[Hayo Baan]

Kirk,

Oh, one completely unrelated thing I noticed is that when I started PM for the first time using my wife's account, it told me it had to register again.  I did not expect this as the program was already registered (of course).  I guess this has to do with the fact you save the registration info in the user's preferences (or wherever), not in the system preferences (or whatever).  Not a bug, but just something unexpected.

We made that change because it has been a support issue for folks that don't have an Admin account, so PM cannot write out the registration data in a location that works for all users.  So people call us on the phone for help.  The way we're doing it now it should always work since PM will always be able to write to their user's Preferences folder.

Ah, excellent reasoning, makes perfect sense