4.6 beta comments

[nmf]

What is the difference between 'FTP As' and 'Upload' ? They now seem to be identical and at least a waste of a shortcut.

Personally I much preferred them being separate with 'FTP As' being for sending to clients and 'Upload' for archive sites with in both cases my first choices being visible on opening.

Thanks

(Powerbook G4 / Mac 10.4.11)

[oryk]

Oryk,
You can re size the File Uploader box down, it's there.
I made the same mistake;)

many thanks to Bob and Kirk.

-Oryk

[Kirk Baker]

What is the difference between 'FTP As' and 'Upload' ? They now seem to be identical and at least a waste of a shortcut.

Personally I much preferred them being separate with 'FTP As' being for sending to clients and 'Upload' for archive sites with in both cases my first choices being visible on opening.

FTP As will always automatically choose the FTP template for you upon opening the Upload dialog.  You don't have to fumble around with choosing the template.  Also if we removed the FTP As menu item and shortcut then many people would be upset.

-Kirk

[nmf]

Sorry, I think you have misunderstood my question about the difference between the 'FTP As' and 'Upload dialog'. Both commands appear to open the same dialog.

And if you removed the 'FTP As' menu item and shortcut, I would get upset !

[rcohn]

Ric,

Two things I noticed when using the Beta which may actually be unchanged, but I never noticed before:

1. Images in Lab mode show the thumbnail, but not a higher rez view. When I first view them in the Preview window the images briefly shows as a pixelated enlargement and then switches to the Black Unsupported message. Any reason this pixelated thumbnail shouldn't stay with an "Unsupported" or "Unable to Render" message over it?

What file format is this file?  Can you share a sample file with us?  Please click on my name to the left of this message, then click on the 'personal message' link.  I will respond with upload instructions.

2. Images in CMYK look correct in the thumbnail, but are much too dark in the Preview (or Loop view, which looks the same). Has this always been true and I've never noticed, or is it possible to fix PM to show CMYK correctly?

What file format is this file?  Can you share a sample file with us?  Please click on my name to the left of this message, then click on the 'personal message' link.  I will respond with upload instructions.

I know I've asked this before, but both of these make me wonder again if there isn't a low rez image icon embedded in psd's tiff's and jpeg's that can be accessed separately from the full size preview. Isn't there a 128 px thumbnail that is used by the Mac OS finder? If so couldn't this be used for those images that are too large to show with Quicktime? Ideally with a message something like "full size preview not supported" over it in red so users know it's not a mistake.

There isn't always a Finder Icon associated with the file.  Also, this wouldn't work at all on Windows.  The real solution is to stop using QuickTime for PSD rendering and use our own solution.  We still haven't completed that work yet.

-Kirk

Hi Kirk,

I've uploaded some sample images.

In looking more closely, I don't think most of what I'm seeing is different from 4.5.4's behavior. However, it would still be great if any of this can be addressed. Also, it would probably be good if there was still an "unable to render" message rather than a blank space in the thumbnails for the images that PM can't render, but aren't damaged.

I've uploaded some example images and screen shots with comments. Let me know if you want any more. I didn't include anything large, but I will if you want one.

I notice that images in LAB format show as "No embedded icc profile" if I set {icc} to display. Not sure if LAB is considered to be or have an ICC profile, but it would be nice if this could be displayed along with sRGB, AdobeRGB, etc. Also, is there a Variable to have the Color Space (RGB, LAB, CMYK, Greyscale) display?

From your response about Quicktime it sounds like you are undertaking the task of giving PM it's own psd render engine. If so, KUDOS and good luck! This would, of course, render many of my comments moot.

Regards,

Ric

[Ben Curtis]

Hi,

4.6 beta looks very promising. Haven't had time to examine all the functions yet... but the loupe is great!
One question though, the 4.6 beta seems to pick up prefs from my 4.5 installation. Is this a one-off duplication of prefs, or do they continue to share the same prefs.
I'm just wondering if it's OK to have both installed at the same time (Win XP) and not have 4.6 (to play with) mess around with the prefs of 4.5 (critical for work).

Thanks,

Ben

[Ben Curtis]

A couple comments re: the IPTC dialog box:

1. The IPTC caption font scaling (* Added a new preference for scaling the IPTC Caption field font size up to 200% (in the new Accessibility tab)) - seems to work only in the new-style IPTC dialog, not with classic dialogs. Is this a bug, or will classic dialogs never get this feature?

2. What are the new buttons to the right of the caption field - a second dropdown triangle that doesn't seem to have any option, and a "tick" box?

3. Are there still any plans (you mentioned customisability of this was being worked on before) to allow either of the following:
a) Allow resizing of the Classic IPTC dialog to allow more space for text to be visible in each field, particularly caption field?
b) Allow hide/unhide of various fields in the new-style dialog?
c) Anything else to make the caption space larger....

I still find in both classic and new-style that captions can exceed the visible space, require scrolling up and down which wastes lots of time.

Lots of good stuff in the new beta though :-) The "Save Photos As" jpeg-quality from 1 to 100, instead of 1 to 10, is really welcome. I'd still love to see a "Save at whatever quality that gives a target size of : XXX kb" option, but I realise it's hard to implement.

Thanks,
Ben

[Kirk Baker]

Ben,

4.6 beta looks very promising. Haven't had time to examine all the functions yet... but the loupe is great!
One question though, the 4.6 beta seems to pick up prefs from my 4.5 installation. Is this a one-off duplication of prefs, or do they continue to share the same prefs.
I'm just wondering if it's OK to have both installed at the same time (Win XP) and not have 4.6 (to play with) mess around with the prefs of 4.5 (critical for work).

Photo Mechanic 4.6 reads the old preferences values if new ones don't exist yet.  So once you've run PM 4.6 once, all of the settings from prior versions are pulled into the new preferences settings.  From that point onward, PM 4.6 and earlier versions do not share preferences.

It is OK to have both installed and neither should interfere with the other.

-Kirk

[Kirk Baker]

Ben,

A couple comments re: the IPTC dialog box:

1. The IPTC caption font scaling (* Added a new preference for scaling the IPTC Caption field font size up to 200% (in the new Accessibility tab)) - seems to work only in the new-style IPTC dialog, not with classic dialogs. Is this a bug, or will classic dialogs never get this feature?

Not a bug.  The Classic IPTC dialogs are no longer being updated for new features.

2. What are the new buttons to the right of the caption field - a second dropdown triangle that doesn't seem to have any option, and a "tick" box?

They're there to support the new AP customizations.  Are you seeing those controls without having activated the AP features?

3. Are there still any plans (you mentioned customisability of this was being worked on before) to allow either of the following:
a) Allow resizing of the Classic IPTC dialog to allow more space for text to be visible in each field, particularly caption field?
b) Allow hide/unhide of various fields in the new-style dialog?
c) Anything else to make the caption space larger....

I still find in both classic and new-style that captions can exceed the visible space, require scrolling up and down which wastes lots of time.

We had plans to allow some customization in version 4.5.x but just couldn't get it done.  I'm not sure when we'll embark on that feature.

Lots of good stuff in the new beta though :-) The "Save Photos As" jpeg-quality from 1 to 100, instead of 1 to 10, is really welcome. I'd still love to see a "Save at whatever quality that gives a target size of : XXX kb" option, but I realise it's hard to implement.

It's not actually hard to implement and get something that works.  It's hard to get something that works and is still fast.  Nobody wants to wait any longer than they have to.

-Kirk

[Ben Curtis]

> Not a bug.  The Classic IPTC dialogs are no longer being updated for new features.

Shame...

> They're there to support the new AP customizations.  Are you seeing those controls without having activated the AP features?

I'm seeing having activated the AP features (I'm AP). What role do those two buttons have?

> We had plans to allow some customization in version 4.5.x but just couldn't get it done.  I'm not sure when we'll embark on that feature.

I and many others vastly prefer classic dialogs. The new-style dialog without being able to hide fields is just too unwieldy and requires scrolling up and down, thus slowing you down and forcing you to look at way too many fields which is distracting. And I'm using a 1920x1080 laptop screen, I can't imagine how people use it on lower res screens. For speed and accuracy when editing I want to be able to see all the fields that I need in one window, with no unrequired fields (of which there are very many in my case), and no scrolling required. If I could hide unused fields it would be OK-ish, though I still prefer the classic layout, though also understand it's limiting if you do want all the fields. Until I can hide some of the new-style fields and/or rearrange them, using the new-style dialog is simply a no-go.

> It's not actually hard to implement and get something that works.  It's hard to get something that works and is still fast.  Nobody wants to wait any longer than they have to.

Fair point. Personally I only use the "Save Photos As" function for reducing size for emailing photos to friends or reducing for web use, neither of which are time-sensitive to me, so I'd be happy with a slow "target size" option. I suspect others do use it for urgent situations and wouldn't be happy with a slow process. An option is always only an option though, and better than no option, at least in my book...

Thanks for the reassurance about using 4.6 and 4.5 on same machine, and for the continued deveopment of PM.

Regards,

Ben

[Kirk Baker]

Ben,

> They're there to support the new AP customizations.  Are you seeing those controls without having activated the AP features?

I'm seeing having activated the AP features (I'm AP). What role do those two buttons have?

They're there for the AP customizations that AP had us do for them.  Someone at AP should be training you all on that.  Ask around.

-Kirk

[Ben Curtis]

By the way the new FTP log and "transfer status" indicators are superb and am sure will prove really useful.

Out of interest is this info permanently stored in the metadata? If so what info is actually stored - just "transferred or failed" or the FTP server details too? Just wondering what info can be seen by the recipient...

One minor niggle... on the FTP uploader dialog, is it possible to have the "send" button highlighted as default therefore activated by the keyboard "return" key? I think it was this way in 4.5

Also, each time you FTP a picture, it opens a new upload/transfer window. Is this intentional, or can it be so new files to upload get added to the existing window (as per 4.5 I think). Assuming the same server is being used of course...

Thanks again... Ben

[Kirk Baker]

By the way the new FTP log and "transfer status" indicators are superb and am sure will prove really useful.

Out of interest is this info permanently stored in the metadata? If so what info is actually stored - just "transferred or failed" or the FTP server details too? Just wondering what info can be seen by the recipient...

Nothing is stored.  The Upload Status Indicators are lost as soon as you close the contact sheet tab or quit PM.

One minor niggle... on the FTP uploader dialog, is it possible to have the "send" button highlighted as default therefore activated by the keyboard "return" key? I think it was this way in 4.5

Are you on Mac OS X or Windows?

Also, each time you FTP a picture, it opens a new upload/transfer window. Is this intentional, or can it be so new files to upload get added to the existing window (as per 4.5 I think). Assuming the same server is being used of course...

That is not intentional.  I'll look into it.

-Kirk

[Ben Curtis]

WinXP SP3...

[Kirk Baker]

Ben,

Also, each time you FTP a picture, it opens a new upload/transfer window. Is this intentional, or can it be so new files to upload get added to the existing window (as per 4.5 I think). Assuming the same server is being used of course...

Can you post a screenshot of the multiple Upload progress dialogs?  Please arrange the windows so their entire title bars can be seen.

Thanks,

-Kirk