Photo Mechanic "App" for new iPad

[Kirk Baker]

Andrew,

All very interesting to read the "open letter" and it's very much appreciated that the developers here take this seriously.

There are other ways perhaps images can be imported directly into a PM app avoiding some of the interface problems/limitations Apple might have on the iPad as suggested in the open letter, perhaps using HTML5 etc. I'm no expert, but other apps use various ways to pull in files to their app directly, the same could be true with photos?

Also using HTML5 would only require a simple browser interface and perhaps a wireless card/card reader, so constructing a wireless workflow with something like EyeFi could also be very possible to avoid the ingest issues.

I don't think many Photographers want to have to use something like an EyeFi or a wireless transmitter unit for their camera.  If they did, they would be using them now and really wouldn't need an iPad, they would have their device upload directly to their server.

I have actually tried a few download/edit/transmits from the iPad using the Apple Camera Connection Kit and although I can't add a caption, it was easy to browse the sd card, select the pix to upload to the iPad, use editing software like PhotoForge to do basic corrections and use a FTP app to drop to various FTP sites,
although all was not particularly fast as one had to navigate thru 3 apps, if this was all in one app, I imagine this would be very fast to do

It can't be done in one app.  One must always use the Photos app to get the images onto the iPad.  Then the app must always use the UIImagePickerController to choose one photo at a time which can only transfer pixel data (all metadata including the filename is lost during this hand off from the photos library, which is a complete deal-breaker for many users) and moreover all of this pixel data has to fit into the limited memory of the iPad.  There are so many issues with the loss of access to the original file and the lack of easy identification of the images that one may be interested in transmitting as to only make a currently implementable solution nothing more than a novelty.  If we spent the effort to make a product (wouldn't be an all in one app) users might buy it, but they wouldn't use it much after the first few tries and would revert back to using a laptop with a full version of PM.

What needs to be done is for each and every photographer that is interested in a pro-quality app to be created for the iPad to call, email, or hand-write a letter to Apple requesting that they open up access to the media connected via the CCK to all apps, and not just Apple's.  Moreover, they should request a Compact Flash CCK module be developed as well.  Icing on the cake would be to request Apple to make the CCK modules physically lock onto the iPad when connected instead of their easily jarred connection.

Please, everyone, tell Apple you want this.  It won't happen any other way.  I am completely serious!

-Kirk

[jharrell]

As a iPhone/iPad developer and someone interested in photo editing on the iPad I had to make a response to the open letter.

The 256mb ram issue should really not be a roadblock, contrary to popular belief the iPhone OS actually does have a virtual memory system, it just does not have a page file. It does however have a full 32bit address space allowing access up to 4Gb of virtual memory. You can access this virtual memory using memory mapped files. I know if I where to develop a photo editing app for the iPad I would not load raw images directly into memory, instead I would mmap them, and probably make a temp working files and mmap them.

Virtual memory is of course slower than ram, but not as much on the iPad because the disk is flash based. When developing on the iPad you have to treat the ram as more of a cache than you would when developing for a PC where you simply load everything into ram. Memory mapping files will allow the OS to manage the caching for you, as it will read pages into ram and flush them back to disk when ram need to be reclaimed.

So bottom line the iPad may be slower because of its lack of ram and cpu, it is not impossible, with memory mapped files every app basically has access to 4Gb of memory.

Your points on transferring photos are of course a large issue,honestly the iPad would really shine in this space if more cameras supported wifi or bluetooth.

[Kirk Baker]

As a iPhone/iPad developer and someone interested in photo editing on the iPad I had to make a response to the open letter.

The 256mb ram issue should really not be a roadblock, contrary to popular belief the iPhone OS actually does have a virtual memory system, it just does not have a page file. It does however have a full 32bit address space allowing access up to 4Gb of virtual memory. You can access this virtual memory using memory mapped files. I know if I where to develop a photo editing app for the iPad I would not load raw images directly into memory, instead I would mmap them, and probably make a temp working files and mmap them.

Virtual memory is of course slower than ram, but not as much on the iPad because the disk is flash based. When developing on the iPad you have to treat the ram as more of a cache than you would when developing for a PC where you simply load everything into ram. Memory mapping files will allow the OS to manage the caching for you, as it will read pages into ram and flush them back to disk when ram need to be reclaimed.

So bottom line the iPad may be slower because of its lack of ram and cpu, it is not impossible, with memory mapped files every app basically has access to 4Gb of memory.

Your points on transferring photos are of course a large issue,honestly the iPad would really shine in this space if more cameras supported wifi or bluetooth.

The main issue is that we as developers have no way to mmap the pixels handed to us via the provided API.  All of the pixels have to be in RAM at once.  I don't see how memory mapping would help with this issue.

Perhaps an online petition needs to be made.  Interested users could sign on.

-Kirk

[Kirk Baker]

I found this link for giving Apple feedback on the iPad:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipad.html

Let them know (nicely, please) that you want 'app' developers to have direct access to the photos on your camera cards and that you want a Compact Flash version of the CCK.  Everyone that is interested should do this!

-Kirk

[jharrell]

The main issue is that we as developers have no way to mmap the pixels handed to us via the provided API.  All of the pixels have to be in RAM at once.  I don't see how memory mapping would help with this issue.

Perhaps an online petition needs to be made.  Interested users could sign on.

-Kirk

From my understanding the UIImage given to you with the UIImagePickerController is memory mapped from the original file or from some temporary file at least. It references this in multiple place in the docs by saying things like "If the image object’s underlying image data has been purged, calling this function forces that data to be reloaded into memory." So it is not necessarily all loaded in ram at once.

So to import large images you would want to take the UIImage and use the UIImagePNGRepresentation to get an NSData and immediately save it to your apps documents folder to make a working copy, then mmap that copy and do your work with it.

[Kirk Baker]

The main issue is that we as developers have no way to mmap the pixels handed to us via the provided API.  All of the pixels have to be in RAM at once.  I don't see how memory mapping would help with this issue.

Perhaps an online petition needs to be made.  Interested users could sign on.

From my understanding the UIImage given to you with the UIImagePickerController is memory mapped from the original file or from some temporary file at least. It references this in multiple place in the docs by saying things like "If the image object’s underlying image data has been purged, calling this function forces that data to be reloaded into memory." So it is not necessarily all loaded in ram at once.

So to import large images you would want to take the UIImage and use the UIImagePNGRepresentation to get an NSData and immediately save it to your apps documents folder to make a working copy, then mmap that copy and do your work with it.

That still doesn't solve the tedious nature of having to pick a single photo at a time from absolutely tiny thumbnails, nor does it solve the issue of completely losing access to all EXIF data and the name of the photo itself.  For some users the loss of the filename and the EXIF data would be no big deal.  For others that would be a complete deal-breaker.

It would be far better if Apple would allow apps to have direct access (read-only if need be) to the files on the card or at least provide an API to get a listing of the files and have a way to read the files in their entirety, with random access.

-Kirk

[andrewross]

Thanks Kirk, have added my support to this via Apples' support - hope that helps.

The main issue is that we as developers have no way to mmap the pixels handed to us via the provided API.  All of the pixels have to be in RAM at once.  I don't see how memory mapping would help with this issue.

Perhaps an online petition needs to be made.  Interested users could sign on.

-Kirk

From my understanding the UIImage given to you with the UIImagePickerController is memory mapped from the original file or from some temporary file at least. It references this in multiple place in the docs by saying things like "If the image object’s underlying image data has been purged, calling this function forces that data to be reloaded into memory." So it is not necessarily all loaded in ram at once.

So to import large images you would want to take the UIImage and use the UIImagePNGRepresentation to get an NSData and immediately save it to your apps documents folder to make a working copy, then mmap that copy and do your work with it.

[andrewross]

FYI: Following the possibilities and options of this, there seems to be quite a few developers/software companies now that seem interested in this iPad workflow; there is also at least one app now allowing you to edit, caption and FTP from the iPad - it's just been updated and seems some more developers to follow suit. How I wish it was Photo Mechanic though! I'm sure this will have some impact for photojournalists in the future.

[Nick Didlick]

Kirk and Dennis
Its time to get the Catalogue option for PM out there man, I have been waiting so long I can't even remember when we started talking about this. Also it is essential that PM "Lite" for iPad/iPhone is developed with ability to add a simple caption and FTP/Email the a photo or multiple photos to a destination. I cant believe there is even any need for debate about these items... don't make me drive down there, or develop my own iPad app called "Mechanic Photo"!
rgds
Nick Didlick

[golfbug72]

Real simple question here - I am sure to take the ipad step before too long - I can see lots of benefits for managing my broader business, however lots of limitations for actively processing and managing my photographs at this point - however, I have a relatively simple requirement for PM which only uses a small fraction of its functionality - which is to enhance my catalogue of images by adding extra key words etc  - and as spend lots of time on airplanes like everyone else - suspect that a really light app which allows me to take a couple of galleries at a time onto the ipad and then use "down time" to caption correctly - then back into pc ( yes I am still in that era too...)   

All - polite - suggestions very welcome

[csgaraglino]

AndrewRoss,

What is the name of the app you are referring to?

I have tried SortShots, but it has serious issues, including duplicating every image/video and serious crashes if you have more than ten or so clips?

There are two apps that I am looking at but they are new and there is no information on them. With one being Meta Editor ($10) and iProof Pro ($45), I would like to know more about them before i make the investment.

 

[vAfotoriporter]

I see there are lots of limitations in the iOS that curse the wish for an iPad/iPhone app....how about the Android platform? Is it more free and open to developments?

[Kirk Baker]

I see there are lots of limitations in the iOS that curse the wish for an iPad/iPhone app....how about the Android platform? Is it more free and open to developments?

Yes.  We're investigating Android as well.

-Kirk

[matins]

AndrewRoss,

What is the name of the app you are referring to?

I have tried SortShots, but it has serious issues, including duplicating every image/video and serious crashes if you have more than ten or so clips?

There are two apps that I am looking at but they are new and there is no information on them. With one being Meta Editor ($10) and iProof Pro ($45), I would like to know more about them before i make the investment.

 

I think he was talking about filterstorm. It's basically an editing app, but with the new versions coming (i am a beta tester) the developer is adding full iptc fields, large image saving and ftp transfer. By the way we're still missing an app like "photo mechanic lite" for rating and selecting...

[Kirk Baker]

AndrewRoss,

What is the name of the app you are referring to?

I have tried SortShots, but it has serious issues, including duplicating every image/video and serious crashes if you have more than ten or so clips?

There are two apps that I am looking at but they are new and there is no information on them. With one being Meta Editor ($10) and iProof Pro ($45), I would like to know more about them before i make the investment.

I think he was talking about filterstorm. It's basically an editing app, but with the new versions coming (i am a beta tester) the developer is adding full iptc fields, large image saving and ftp transfer. By the way we're still missing an app like "photo mechanic lite" for rating and selecting...

Since you're a user of Filterstorm, can you tell me how you get your pictures onto the iPad so that you can use them with Filterstorm?  How convenient is it?  (or not?)

Thanks,

-Kirk