Raw Settings/IPTC Core info made in Photoshop CS2 lost in update in PM

[artminds]

Please tell me if this is a settings issue, or a limitation of PM (using Windows XP Pro when this sequence of events unfolded).

I was processing a folder of 200 Canon Raw TIF images in Adobe Photoshop CS2, using Bridge, and Adobe Camera Raw. I had set croppings, exposure/shadow/brightness/contrast and color temp settings in Adobe Camera Raw and Bridge, as well as embedded IPTC Core information.

Subsequent to that processing, I opened a contact sheet of the same folder in PM 4.4.3.2 for the purpose of renaming the files using a sequence variable.  Thereafter I used the Stationery Pad to embed the file name, in the Object Name field, and to add keywords. I applied only those 2 settings in the Stationery Pad to the entire folder.

After closing the Contact Sheet in PM, I reopened the folder in Bridge, and much to my dismay, all of the RAW processing settings, including corpping, that I had done in Bridge and Camera RAW, as well as the IPTC Core information, was now gone.

Please help. I need to understand what went wrong if anything, or if this is a limitation of PM in it's current version. It occurs to me as I write this that perhaps the file renaming in PM did not rename the corresponding XMP sidecar files, so that when the image was reopened in Bridge, it had no corresponding sidecar files to match with the file names. However, when I look in the folder using Explorer, I don't see any sidecar files with the old names.


Regards,
Art Minds
Pasadena, CA

[Kirk Baker]

Art,

Please tell me if this is a settings issue, or a limitation of PM (using Windows XP Pro when this sequence of events unfolded).

I was processing a folder of 200 Canon Raw TIF images in Adobe Photoshop CS2, using Bridge, and Adobe Camera Raw. I had set croppings, exposure/shadow/brightness/contrast and color temp settings in Adobe Camera Raw and Bridge, as well as embedded IPTC Core information.

Subsequent to that processing, I opened a contact sheet of the same folder in PM 4.4.3.2 for the purpose of renaming the files using a sequence variable.  Thereafter I used the Stationery Pad to embed the file name, in the Object Name field, and to add keywords. I applied only those 2 settings in the Stationery Pad to the entire folder.

After closing the Contact Sheet in PM, I reopened the folder in Bridge, and much to my dismay, all of the RAW processing settings, including corpping, that I had done in Bridge and Camera RAW, as well as the IPTC Core information, was now gone.

Please help. I need to understand what went wrong if anything, or if this is a limitation of PM in it's current version. It occurs to me as I write this that perhaps the file renaming in PM did not rename the corresponding XMP sidecar files, so that when the image was reopened in Bridge, it had no corresponding sidecar files to match with the file names. However, when I look in the folder using Explorer, I don't see any sidecar files with the old names.

So do you think that Bridge/ACR is embedding its settings into your Canon RAW TIF files (from a 1D or 1Ds?)
What settings are you using on the IPTC/XMP tab of the Preferences dialog?  List them all, or post a screenshot.

Thanks,

-Kirk

[artminds]

I replicated the same result on my Mac Powerbook with the same version of PM.  Attached is s screen capture of the settings in PM which are the default settings. I'm shooting RAW TIF images with a Canon 1Ds.

Art


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[Kirk Baker]

Art,

I replicated the same result on my Mac Powerbook with the same version of PM.  Attached is s screen capture of the settings in PM which are the default settings. I'm shooting RAW TIF images with a Canon 1Ds.

I'm investigating this now.  When I adjust the 1D .TIF file that I have access to with ACR, it creates an XMP sidecar file.  Bridge also creates an XMP sidecar file when I edit the metadata.  I don't see how your folder does not contain any .XMP files if you are captioning or adjusting the image with Adobe products.  Please check again and report on what you find.

I will let you know what I find out about the workflow with 1D/1Ds RAW TIF files, but in the meantime you can revert your images to their original state by selecting them in Photo Mechanic and then choose the "Revert TIFF-based RAW to original" command on the Tools menu.  This will undo any captioning changes made in Photo Mechanic.

-Kirk

[artminds]

Kirk,

Somewhere along the line you misread my original message. I HAVE the XMP sidecar files. Never said I didin't. What I suggested in my first reply was that when I renamed the files in PM, I suspected one cause of the problem was that the XMP sidecar files possibly didn't get renamed, and that when I next looked at the files in Bridge, it now had a new TIF file without a matching XMP file. But I confirmed that was not the case, by looking in the folder, and confirming that there were no stray XMP files with the ORIGINAL file names. The XMP files are all there, with the current file name, and PM properly renamed both the TIF files and the XMP sidecar files.

Art

[Kirk Baker]

Art,

Somewhere along the line you misread my original message. I HAVE the XMP sidecar files. Never said I didin't. What I suggested in my first reply was that when I renamed the files in PM, I suspected one cause of the problem was that the XMP sidecar files possibly didn't get renamed, and that when I next looked at the files in Bridge, it now had a new TIF file without a matching XMP file. But I confirmed that was not the case, by looking in the folder, and confirming that there were no stray XMP files with the ORIGINAL file names. The XMP files are all there, with the current file name, and PM properly renamed both the TIF files and the XMP sidecar files.

Here is what you can do to solve this issue:

First select your photos and then use the "Revert TIFF-based RAW to original" command on the Tools menu.  Be sure to uncheck the "Backup IPTC/XMP to XMP sidecar files" checkbox.  Then click on the Revert button.

Change your IPTC/XMP settings in the Preferences dialog under the IPTC/XMP tab:

In the "When reading IPTC/XMP:" area, under the sentence that reads: "For TIFF-based RAW photos search in the following order:" set each of the popup menus to read:

First:Read XMP sidecar file
Second:Read embedded XMP
Third:Read embedded IPTC

(The order of the last two popup menus don't really matter, but something needs to be chosen.)

In the "When writing IPTC/XMP:" area, under the sentence that reads: "For TIFF-based RAW photos:", uncheck both "Add embedded IPTC" and "Add embedded IPTC4XMP".  The popup menu will automatically change to read "Always create and/or update XMP sidecar file with IPTC4XMP" and it will become disabled.

This will change your captioning workflow from an embedded workflow to an entirely XMP sidecar based workflow.  Adobe's products have a "bug (or maybe it is a feature)" where they prefer XMP data found within RAW files, even if there is an XMP sidecar file present.  The reason I think it is a bug rather than a feature is that even though they end up reading the embedded XMP data, they don't update it and continue to update the XMP sidecar file.  This means that if you later visit a file treated in this way again, it will still lose its rendering settings.  I think that if they read embedded XMP, then they should update embedded XMP, otherwise they should ignore it and stick with the XMP sidecar files.  This would work better for everyone.

HTH,

-Kirk

[artminds]

Hello Kirk,

I have a question on your recommendation as to how to revert the changes made by PM.

Not being aware of that feature, I opened the images again in Photoshop (Bridge > Camera Raw) and made subsequent changes there to attempt to get the images back to close to where they were. If I use your "revert" feature, will that bring them back to where they were before I made the subsequent changes in Photoshop, in terms of processing settings and crops?

Thanks in advance,
Art

[Kirk Baker]

Art,

I have a question on your recommendation as to how to revert the changes made by PM.

Not being aware of that feature, I opened the images again in Photoshop (Bridge > Camera Raw) and made subsequent changes there to attempt to get the images back to close to where they were. If I use your "revert" feature, will that bring them back to where they were before I made the subsequent changes in Photoshop, in terms of processing settings and crops?

No.  This will undo all modifications to the RAW files done by you through use of Photo Mechanic.  Since Bridge and ACR use XMP sidecar files for their settings, as long as you use the "Revert TIFF-based RAW to original" with the "Backup IPTC/XMP to XMP sidecar files" turned off (unchecked) then your XMP sidecar files will remain unchanged and should continue to contain their current settings.

To "test the waters" how about just doing the revert on just one photo and then go back to Bridge and see that the photo appears correctly adjusted?  Once you are satisfied with the result, revert the rest of the photos.

HTH,

-Kirk

[artminds]

Hello Kirk,

I finally got around to testing the settings you recommended. Perhaps you can help me understand if what I'm seeing is a correct interpretation of what you stated regarding Adobe Photoshop CS2/Bridge and the way PM handles the IPTC Core information.

After adjusting my RAW processing settings in Bridge/ACR, I then displayed the file in PM in a contact sheet view, I was able to apply some IPTC information in PM, including using a variable to place the file name without the extension into the "Title" field, as well as add keywords, and then returned to Bridge and confirmed that there was no loss of the RAW settings I had made in Adobe Bridge. However the IPTC information does not display in the Metatdata panel in Bridge, although if I actually convert the RAW image and open it in Photoshop, using the File Info menu item, the information is showing in the processed file.

I just want to confirm that this is the limitation you were speaking of when you said that Adobe is not handling this very elegantly. Perhaps you can explain where this information is being stored so I can better understand why Bridge doesn't display it in the Metadata panel, while it is revealed in the converted file.

Thank you,
Art

[Kirk Baker]

Art,

I finally got around to testing the settings you recommended. Perhaps you can help me understand if what I'm seeing is a correct interpretation of what you stated regarding Adobe Photoshop CS2/Bridge and the way PM handles the IPTC Core information.

After adjusting my RAW processing settings in Bridge/ACR, I then displayed the file in PM in a contact sheet view, I was able to apply some IPTC information in PM, including using a variable to place the file name without the extension into the "Title" field, as well as add keywords, and then returned to Bridge and confirmed that there was no loss of the RAW settings I had made in Adobe Bridge. However the IPTC information does not display in the Metatdata panel in Bridge, although if I actually convert the RAW image and open it in Photoshop, using the File Info menu item, the information is showing in the processed file.

I just want to confirm that this is the limitation you were speaking of when you said that Adobe is not handling this very elegantly. Perhaps you can explain where this information is being stored so I can better understand why Bridge doesn't display it in the Metadata panel, while it is revealed in the converted file.

Could you post a screenshot of your IPTC/XMP settings?  I want to have a look at them first so I can run through what I would expect to happen with your current settings.

Thanks,

-Kirk

[artminds]

See screen shot. I believe this is exactly as you instructed me to set them in an earlier exchange in this thread.


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[Kirk Baker]

Art,

See screen shot. I believe this is exactly as you instructed me to set them in an earlier exchange in this thread.

Yes, they look good.

Could you upload one of your RAW files along with it's XMP sidecar file?  Then I can run it through Bridge myself so I can see what you're seeing.  Contact me privately for server information.

Thanks,

-Kirk