missing IPTC caption info in Pshop / upgrade

[mfrphoto]

Hi,

I am using a very old version of Photo Mechanic and I know it is time to upgrade>

PM 4.3.8
Photoshop CS3
on a Macbook Pro running 10.5.8

For years I've had a problem with incompatibility between PM and PS. My workflow:

I ingest jpgs in PM, batch caption, then convert files in PS to tif, work, save jpgs in PS. The captions don't show up in PS, and as I vaguely recall it had to do with where PM and PS save the data (XMP sidecar vs XMP embedded vs embedded IPTC, though I forget the details.)

My workaround for 3+ years has just been to only do captioning in PM.

Now I finally plan to upgrade PM and here is my huge fear: am I going to lose access to all that IPTC data I captioned in PM 4.3.8? How  will I be able to recover it if I do lose it?

Thanks!
(Kirk, I remember you were helpful a few years ago, last time I asked questions, so I am glad to see you are still here!)

Mike

[Kirk Baker]

Mike,

I am using a very old version of Photo Mechanic and I know it is time to upgrade>

PM 4.3.8
Photoshop CS3
on a Macbook Pro running 10.5.8

For years I've had a problem with incompatibility between PM and PS. My workflow:

I ingest jpgs in PM, batch caption, then convert files in PS to tif, work, save jpgs in PS. The captions don't show up in PS, and as I vaguely recall it had to do with where PM and PS save the data (XMP sidecar vs XMP embedded vs embedded IPTC, though I forget the details.)

My workaround for 3+ years has just been to only do captioning in PM.

Now I finally plan to upgrade PM and here is my huge fear: am I going to lose access to all that IPTC data I captioned in PM 4.3.8? How  will I be able to recover it if I do lose it?

You shouldn't lose anything.  Moreover, you should be able to keep your old version of PM on your system after you upgrade.  Just make a folder in your Applications folder and call it something like (name really not important) "Photo Mechanic old" and put the 4.3.8 version in there.  Then copy the 4.6.3 version to your Applications folder.

Though I'm not sure why you would be having any difficulty with PM 4.3.8 captioning JPEGs and having the captions be visible in Photoshop.  IPTC and XMP are both embedded right into JPEGs by both applications.  I can say for certain that PM 4.6.3 will be much more compatible with Mac OS X 10.5.8 than PM 4.3.8 is.

-Kirk

[mfrphoto]

Kirk,

Thanks for the answer. I will upgrade next week. In the meantime, I am trying to isolate my problem by looking at my workflow.

As you said,
captioning JPEGs and having the captions be visible in Photoshop
does not in fact seem to be a problem.

Here is case where problem does arise:
I ingest jpgs in PM,
batch caption the jpgs in PM,
then convert files in PS to tif,
color work, modify the caption in PM
THEN caption changes do not show up in PS

(if later: save tif as jpg, then caption changes do not show up in PS or PM)

I often end up with completely blank IPTC in my final jpgs but I have not tracked down which step this happens.

If you see an obvious workflow problem please let me know. Otherwise I will upgrade and see if that resolves it.

Thanks so much!
Mike

[Kirk Baker]

Mike,

Thanks for the answer. I will upgrade next week. In the meantime, I am trying to isolate my problem by looking at my workflow.

As you said,
captioning JPEGs and having the captions be visible in Photoshop
does not in fact seem to be a problem.

Here is case where problem does arise:
I ingest jpgs in PM,
batch caption the jpgs in PM,
then convert files in PS to tif,
color work, modify the caption in PM
THEN caption changes do not show up in PS

(if later: save tif as jpg, then caption changes do not show up in PS or PM)

I often end up with completely blank IPTC in my final jpgs but I have not tracked down which step this happens.

If you see an obvious workflow problem please let me know. Otherwise I will upgrade and see if that resolves it.

I believe that older versions of PM could only caption TIFF files by adding caption data to the resource fork of the TIFF file. Not all applications expect to see captions in resource forks.

I suggest downloading a demo version of 4.6.3 and giving it a try.

-Kirk

[mfrphoto]

Hi Kirk or whomever wants to answer

I've upgraded to PM 4.6.3 and as I feared, I can not find caption information entered using old PM 4.3.8.

I read the manual about IPTC/XMP preferences and it sounds likely that my captions would have been stored as embedded IPTC. However, when I set preferences to read IPTC first they still do not show up.

You said that:
"I believe that older versions of PM could only caption TIFF files by adding caption data to the resource fork of the TIFF file. Not all applications expect to see captions in resource forks."

MY KEY QUESTION: how do I find that old data in new version of PM? or PS?

To repeat, here was my workflow:

I ingest jpgs in PM 4.3.8,
batch caption the jpgs in PM 4.3.8,
then convert files in Photshop CS3 to tif,
color work in PS CS3,
modify the caption in PM 4.3.8

THEN caption changes show up in PM 4.3.8 but not PM 4.6.3 or in PS.

I am attaching 2 sample files for you to see. (Since I can't send the tif, I made jpgs using Send Photos via Email in PM 4.3.8 and PM 4.6.3
UKR_Ivankiv_street07_14541x4-3-8.jpg - from PM 4.3.8
UKR_Ivankiv_street07_14541x4-6-3.jpg - from PM 4.6.3

In this sample:
First line in caption field as seen in PM 4.6.3:
This is a photograph from Ivankiv, in the radiation-affected area near

First lines in caption field as seen in PM 4.3.8:
Photo title:
Olga and Vanya before they married

Caption:
In 2007, Olga Feshenko

Thanks so much for your help!
Michael

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Kirk Baker]

Michael,

I've upgraded to PM 4.6.3 and as I feared, I can not find caption information entered using old PM 4.3.8.

I read the manual about IPTC/XMP preferences and it sounds likely that my captions would have been stored as embedded IPTC. However, when I set preferences to read IPTC first they still do not show up.

You said that:
"I believe that older versions of PM could only caption TIFF files by adding caption data to the resource fork of the TIFF file. Not all applications expect to see captions in resource forks."

MY KEY QUESTION: how do I find that old data in new version of PM? or PS?

To repeat, here was my workflow:

I ingest jpgs in PM 4.3.8,
batch caption the jpgs in PM 4.3.8,
then convert files in Photshop CS3 to tif,
color work in PS CS3,
modify the caption in PM 4.3.8

THEN caption changes show up in PM 4.3.8 but not PM 4.6.3 or in PS.

I am attaching 2 sample files for you to see. (Since I can't send the tif, I made jpgs using Send Photos via Email in PM 4.3.8 and PM 4.6.3
UKR_Ivankiv_street07_14541x4-3-8.jpg - from PM 4.3.8
UKR_Ivankiv_street07_14541x4-6-3.jpg - from PM 4.6.3

I downloaded both images.  Here is what I can see in the Caption field of the 4-3-8 version of the file:


Photo title:
Olga and Vanya before they married

Caption:
In 2007, Olga Feshenko represented hope for Ivankiv’s future to me. At fifteen, she was an orphan living with her grandparents, yet nevertheless seemed happy, riding bikes and flirting with her boyfriend Vanya Kulik, left.

A year later, Olga was Ivankiv’s youngest widow. She got pregnant soon after this photo, and married Vanya. When their baby was 2 months old, Vanya died in a car crash. Olga’s grandfather also died that summer.

Now Olga is seventeen. She lives with her new husband. She spends most of her time with her son Vova, but is committed to finishing her last year of high school. Despite everything, she plans to stay here.

Quote: none
-------------------
© Michael Forster Rothbart Photography
www.mfrphoto.com • 608-242-1131
64 Lansing St, Madison, WI  53714
info@mfrphoto.com
Photo by: Michael Forster Rothbart
Date:  8/2007    File#:  Canon 20D digital camera frame 4541


Here is what I can see in the Caption field of the 4-6-3 version of the file:


This is a photograph from Ivankiv, in the radiation-affected area near Chernobyl. Outside the 30-kilometer Exclusion Zone (where almost no one lives) are many small villages in Ivankiv and Dymer raions where the land was also affected by radioactive fallout. People continue to live here despite higher incidences of diseases such as cancer, and receive small government pensions for their status as Chernobyl survivors.
© Michael Forster Rothbart Photography
www.mfrphoto.com • 608-242-1131
64 Lansing St, Madison, WI  53714
info@mfrphoto.com
Photo by: Michael Forster Rothbart
Date:  8/2007    File#:  Canon 20D digital camera frame 4541


Is this not what you expect?  If you want to send me the original TIFF file, I can provide instructions on how to upload the image to our server.  Please click on my name to the left of this message, then click on the 'personal message' link.  I will respond with upload instructions.

-Kirk