Problem w extra spaces added around hierarchical keywords in PM

[photomy]

I use - PM 4.6.7, Windows 7 64 bit Pro, Intel I7 930 cpu

I read this post from last year with interest but it was not clear if the problem was solved for raw files.  

http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=5646.0

In my case, I am now using just NEF files, with no XMP sidecar files.  I have tried using the PM structured keyword panel and it seems to have a lot of potential for me.  However, it seem no matter how I set the preferences to write metadata into the NEF files, there is always two sets of the structured keywords.  

a correct set put into the metada area as follows:

---- XMP-lr ----
Hierarchical Subject            : 01 PEOPLE|families|Reynolds_Tom+Lisa|Reynolds_Franky

and a second copy with spaces incorrectly added around the dividers into the IPTC area:


---- IPTC ----
Application Record Version      : 3
Date Created                    : 2011:08:07
Time Created                    : 14:19:15-06:00
Keywords                        : 01 PEOPLE | families | Reynolds_Tom+Lisa | Reynolds_Franky
By-line                         : Thomas Reynolds


The problem is that this messes with my main catalog program IMatch, as well as causing LR to duplicate the data in the structured keyword section.  Actually, if I delete the spaces, from the IPTC version, it seems to be OK.

So, I am looking for a way to keep the spaces out of the second IPTC version of structured keywords, or stop the second version in the IPTC area all together.

See attached (hopefully) jpeg of preferences screen.

Thanks,   Tom







[attachment deleted by admin]

[Kirk Baker]

Tom,

I use - PM 4.6.7, Windows 7 64 bit Pro, Intel I7 930 cpu

I read this post from last year with interest but it was not clear if the problem was solved for raw files.  

http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=5646.0

In my case, I am now using just NEF files, with no XMP sidecar files.  I have tried using the PM structured keyword panel and it seems to have a lot of potential for me.  However, it seem no matter how I set the preferences to write metadata into the NEF files, there is always two sets of the structured keywords.  

a correct set put into the metada area as follows:

---- XMP-lr ----
Hierarchical Subject            : 01 PEOPLE|families|Reynolds_Tom+Lisa|Reynolds_Franky

and a second copy with spaces incorrectly added around the dividers into the IPTC area:


---- IPTC ----
Application Record Version      : 3
Date Created                    : 2011:08:07
Time Created                    : 14:19:15-06:00
Keywords                        : 01 PEOPLE | families | Reynolds_Tom+Lisa | Reynolds_Franky
By-line                         : Thomas Reynolds


The problem is that this messes with my main catalog program IMatch, as well as causing LR to duplicate the data in the structured keyword section.  Actually, if I delete the spaces, from the IPTC version, it seems to be OK.

So, I am looking for a way to keep the spaces out of the second IPTC version of structured keywords, or stop the second version in the IPTC area all together.

See attached (hopefully) jpeg of preferences screen.

Since you're no longer embedding IPTC data, I'll take a guess and say that you're working with files that have IPTC embedded in them as well and if you were to strip the IPTC data from your NEFs, the problem would cease to exist.  You can use the 'Delete Metadata' command on the Tools menu to remove only the IPTC data.  Then since you've instructed PM to place Structured Keywords only in the hierarchical keywords section of XMP data you should be fine.

-Kirk

[photomy]

Yes, I figured out that once there is a ("true" not XMP hybrid) IPTC area created, for example by Nikon Transfer (or PM is setting are for such), then PM will continue to write a copy of the structured keywords into this area even if the preferences say not to write to IPTC.  If there is no such IPTC field at all, then it will behave correctly and not write any IPTC info.

Responding to your reply, "Since you're no longer embedding IPTC data, ...."

Well, I would like to use the IPTC data field, however, with the way PM adds the second copy of the structured keywords WITH the extra spaces on each side of the divider, it makes IPTC impractical.  My catalog software, IMatch, is very IPTC driven because the author is very comfortable re the stability of this area of the metadata to move info. in and out of, and LR, which I use occasionally, double books the structured keywords because it thinks the IPTC version is a different keyword with the spaces.  I tested LR, by deleting the spaces in IPTC, (find and replace), and it worked great.  But, I do not want to do find and replace step for each time I add a keyword.

IN summary, the program bugs in PM that affected me in this discussion are two:

1)  For some reason PM Structured Keyword Panel, when it writes a copy of the structured keyword to IPTC, it adds spaces on each side of the word divider.

2)  Even if you delete out all of the keywords from the IPTC field, and then turn off the option to write to IPTC, if there is any data in the IPTC field, the turn off option is then ignored and it will write to IPTC anyway.

Thanks for the great service and support,

Tom

[Kirk Baker]

Tom,

Yes, I figured out that once there is a ("true" not XMP hybrid) IPTC area created, for example by Nikon Transfer (or PM is setting are for such), then PM will continue to write a copy of the structured keywords into this area even if the preferences say not to write to IPTC.  If there is no such IPTC field at all, then it will behave correctly and not write any IPTC info.

Responding to your reply, "Since you're no longer embedding IPTC data, ...."

Well, I would like to use the IPTC data field, however, with the way PM adds the second copy of the structured keywords WITH the extra spaces on each side of the divider, it makes IPTC impractical.  My catalog software, IMatch, is very IPTC driven because the author is very comfortable re the stability of this area of the metadata to move info. in and out of, and LR, which I use occasionally, double books the structured keywords because it thinks the IPTC version is a different keyword with the spaces.  I tested LR, by deleting the spaces in IPTC, (find and replace), and it worked great.  But, I do not want to do find and replace step for each time I add a keyword.

IN summary, the program bugs in PM that affected me in this discussion are two:

1)  For some reason PM Structured Keyword Panel, when it writes a copy of the structured keyword to IPTC, it adds spaces on each side of the word divider.

This can be fixed.  Probably not for the next update ( 4.6.8 ) though.

2)  Even if you delete out all of the keywords from the IPTC field, and then turn off the option to write to IPTC, if there is any data in the IPTC field, the turn off option is then ignored and it will write to IPTC anyway.

This is by design.  In order to keep the various metadata from getting out of sync, PM will update data that it sees in the file.  The only exception to this rule is for RAW files and you have told PM not to update embedded metadata even if it exists.

This will not change.

-Kirk

[photomy]

For some reason PM Structured Keyword Panel, when it writes a copy of the structured keyword to IPTC, it adds spaces on each side of the word divider.

This can be fixed.  Probably not for the next update (4.6.Cool though.

That would be great.  Actually, just sneaking in a quick Find and Replace script from within PM right after the add keyword action would work in the short-run.  I would think deleting " | " and replacing with "|", throughout the metadata would not hurt anything.  The more I look into it the more it is a flaw that limits the usefulness of the wonderful Structured Keyword Panel.  I am finding out that many programs still read and rely on keywords that are in IPTC.