PM to LR Keywords

[1access]

Hi again,

I realize (I think) from the manual (p21-2) that PM keywording will only transfer to LR if LR is set up to receive the metadata via XMP files.  After the images/metadata are imported into LR, can the xmp files be deleted?  In other words, is there way to get the xmp info to write directly to the DNG's or somewhere else in LR's catalog once the info is imported?  I'd rather not have to keep up with all the XMPs and ensuring that they stick with the images when sending to others, etc. 

Thanks for educating my ignorance....

[Kirk Baker]

I realize (I think) from the manual (p21-2) that PM keywording will only transfer to LR if LR is set up to receive the metadata via XMP files.  After the images/metadata are imported into LR, can the xmp files be deleted?  In other words, is there way to get the xmp info to write directly to the DNG's or somewhere else in LR's catalog once the info is imported?  I'd rather not have to keep up with all the XMPs and ensuring that they stick with the images when sending to others, etc. 

DNG files have XMP metadata embedded in them.  There is no external XMP sidecar file to have to keep track of.

-Kirk

[1access]

Thanks, that's definitely good news.  When I changed my settings to those in the manual, xmp side card files were  produced by LR, leading me to believe that they were necessary to the communication between PM and LR.  Previous to changing those settings, LR didn't produce xmp cards.  I'll try running through the settings again but if you have any guesses here, your input would be much appreciated.  

ETA:  For example, this from the manual is unclear to me:  "You must also use XMP sidecar files with your RAW files when working with Adobe products."

[Kirk Baker]

Thanks, that's definitely good news.  When I changed my settings to those in the manual, xmp side card files were  produced by LR, leading me to believe that they were necessary to the communication between PM and LR.  Previous to changing those settings, LR didn't produce xmp cards.  I'll try running through the settings again but if you have any guesses here, your input would be much appreciated.  

ETA:  For example, this from the manual is unclear to me:  "You must also use XMP sidecar files with your RAW files when working with Adobe products."

While DNG is a RAW file format it isn't generally produced by cameras.  All other RAW formats require the use of XMP sidecar files for proper operation with Adobe products.

-Kirk

[1access]

Thanks.  I'm wondering what settings should be different than those in the PM manual so LR will stop producing sidecards.  The side card issue is just a new one since setting up PM and LR as stated in the manual.  Any thoughts?  For example, should I uncheck the LR preference to write metadata changes into XMP since I'm using DNGs? And is it preferable to have PM convert to DNG vs LR in terms of metadata preservation/handling? Thanks!  

[Kirk Baker]

Thanks.  I'm wondering what settings should be different than those in the PM manual so LR will stop producing sidecards.  The side card issue is just a new one since setting up PM and LR as stated in the manual.  Any thoughts?  For example, should I uncheck the LR preference to write metadata changes into XMP since I'm using DNGs? And is it preferable to have PM convert to DNG vs LR in terms of metadata preservation/handling? Thanks!  

Perhaps one of our LR/PM users could answer?

-Kirk

[1access]

I'd love some assistance from a PM-LR workflow user!

Kirk, Am I understanding correctly from you that PM doesn't need to create XMP sidecards to carry over tags, keywords, etc. to DNGs in LR? 

Thanks!

[Kirk Baker]

Kirk, Am I understanding correctly from you that PM doesn't need to create XMP sidecards to carry over tags, keywords, etc. to DNGs in LR? 

XMP sidecar files are never created for DNG files by PM.  Even if you have other RAW formats like NEF, CR2, etc. set to create XMP sidecar files in PM, no XMP sidecar files will be created for DNG files.

-Kirk

[1access]

To follow this work flow, should the Cr2 files be converted to DNG upon import into PM?

When I tried import Cr2 file (key-worded, captioned) into LR w/o writing into side cards, the information didn't carry over. LR is set to make raw files DNG format upon importing.

Thanks for your help!

[Kirk Baker]

To follow this work flow, should the Cr2 files be converted to DNG upon import into PM?

When I tried import Cr2 file (key-worded, captioned) into LR w/o writing into side cards, the information didn't carry over. LR is set to make raw files DNG format upon importing.

I really can't recommend one way or another.  Some folks can't live with the idea of losing their original RAW files and don't like the increased size of a DNG that embeds the original.  Others don't mind converting to DNG.

It's a decision you'll have to make for yourself.

-Kirk

[1access]

Thanks for your response.  I can see the pro's/con's that you mention.  From a purely metadata/tagging perspective, would the conversion to DNG in LR vs conversion in PM make a difference?  I'm not having success in transporting ITCP (?) input in PM (tagging, keywords, captions, dates) to the files converted to DNG in LR without using XMP sidecards.  Ideas?  Thanks again!

[Kirk Baker]

Thanks for your response.  I can see the pro's/con's that you mention.  From a purely metadata/tagging perspective, would the conversion to DNG in LR vs conversion in PM make a difference?  I'm not having success in transporting ITCP (?) input in PM (tagging, keywords, captions, dates) to the files converted to DNG in LR without using XMP sidecards.  Ideas?  Thanks again!

DNGs never use XMP sidecar files.  CR2 files (I think you're using them, right?) would need to have XMP sidecar files to work with LR.  DNG files don't need XMP sidecar files.

Converting to DNG from your CR2 files can be done either in PM or in LR or with the standalone DNG Converter (which is what PM uses to do the conversion).  If you then make metadata edits that are written to the DNG files, both LR and PM should recognize them correctly.  Please note that PM's 'tag' and LR's 'flag' are not interoperable (LR doesn't write the flag information to the XMP data and LR ignores PM's tag XMP data.)

HTH,

-Kirk

[1access]

Thanks, Kirk, for the additional information and explanation.

To Kirk and any others....

So, what would the best/most efficient general PM-2-LR workflow to achieve metadata changes preserved from PM to LR, ending up with DNG files and avoiding XMP sidecars be?

For example:

1. Ingest cards off camera compact flash disk w/ applied global stationery
2.  Pick selects
3.  Convert to DNG via PM (or would this erase the metadate entered upon ingest?  or is it possible to convert to DNG as a part of ingest? or would this best be done in LR and if so, would metadata be preserved?)
4.  Load to LR for editing (would metadata be preserved in LR w/o use of sidecards?)

Much appreciation!

[1access]

Any workflow advice from those who use PM and LR w/ DNG files?

[dgillilan]

1access,
I use Photo Mechanic and Lightroom 3.6 and Nikon Capture NX2 and Photoshop CS5.  I do put keywords and metatags into Photo Mechanic.  I import into Lightroom with my raw and jpg files, I do not import DNGs. I have used DNGs on occasion, but I am saving and backing up my files as raw and jpgs.  I use the xmp sidecars.
Sorry I cannot help you more, but I see no one had replied who uses these titles,
Debra